toohyper
Full Member
Future Yeovil F.C Starting Left Back...LMAO Division 3!!!
Posts: 185
|
Post by toohyper on Dec 27, 2004 11:07:10 GMT -5
yeah and i think some of us already know the old news of Lee Dong Guk coming back to Pohang...
|
|
|
Post by svo7 on Dec 27, 2004 11:39:23 GMT -5
and some of us may arleady know that your avatar is rather....extremely....er...uh....disturbing lol. and your signature too.
|
|
|
Post by Holyjoe on Jan 2, 2005 15:20:11 GMT -5
A list of foreigners who definitely won't be playing K-League football in 2005...
Yashkin Artem (Bucheon) Andy Cooke (Busan) Bizarre Melons (Busan) Fumagali (FC Seoul) Santana (FC Seoul) Rodrigo (Daejeon) Alisong (Daejeon) Henrique (Daejeon) Marcelo Macedo (Seongnam) Ivan Testimantu (Seongnam) Andrei Solomatin (Seongnam) Viera (Chunnam) Kaio (Chunnam) Maezono (Incheon) Tomic (Incheon) Dragan (Incheon)
Of course there are rumours about one or two others departing...
|
|
Colombian
Full Member
"I PARK" said the valet when I drove up to the hotel..
Posts: 211
|
Post by Colombian on Jan 3, 2005 2:55:01 GMT -5
i got a question about the j league, something i should know, but don't:
what's their foreign player limit? do they have something like a EU with Asian players per team? is that why they bring in so many koreans? otherwise, why take them in, when they could attract better european or south american players instead?
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 3, 2005 3:03:14 GMT -5
i got a question about the j league, something i should know, but don't: what's their foreign player limit? do they have something like a EU with Asian players per team? is that why they bring in so many koreans? otherwise, why take them in, when they could attract better european or south american players instead? Maybe Koreans do well there for cultural reasons. Might bring the best out of them whereas as we were saying on another thread with a lot of english speaking imports in Korea they crap out pretty quickly. So a good Korean player might produce results better than a very good south american or european player
|
|
|
Post by SteveW on Jan 3, 2005 6:08:23 GMT -5
Considering the size and proximity of the two countries I don't think there are THAT many Koreans in the J-League. Certainly more than the other way around though. Koreans count as foreigners unless maybe some of them have some kind of dual nationality thing going on but given the notorious difficulty of getting Japanese nationality I would doubt that for the majority of them Um...maybe they just like em? I think one issue is that they CAN'T get very good South American or European players...they are filling their squads with the same dross as the K-LEague (sometimes even K-LEague rejects) whereas they CAN get the BEST Korean players to come. That could be an important factor. Given the choice between Ahn Jung Hwan or Ricardo Nobodino from some unknown Argentinian outfit which would you choose??? ..OK bad example but you get the drift
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 4, 2005 7:43:10 GMT -5
I could be wrong but it seems that a lot of the forward imports from South America to Korea and I assume Japan too are often amongst the leagues leading scorers in Brazil and Argentina.
|
|
|
Post by SteveW on Jan 4, 2005 9:09:06 GMT -5
I could be wrong but it seems that a lot of the forward imports from South America to Korea and I assume Japan too are often amongst the leagues leading scorers in Brazil and Argentina. I'm no expert...they may be. The fact that they rarely have ANY international caps would suggest that they aren't the best available. Also worth checking which league they are even playing in since I think Brazil (and possibly other countries) have more than one pro league setup. Nadson was an u-21 I think and he would be the best of the bunch in terms of pedigree. The BEST South Americans go to Europe, not even a debate around that, and they don't go via Korea or Japan.
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 4, 2005 11:05:08 GMT -5
Yeah I think that virtually no domestic league players in South America make the full strength national sides.
Colombian will know best though.
I think the K-League can never get really big name players to come here as the money they get is just ludicrous. You'd be talking about basically paying a guy more than the rest of the team combined and then some and there's no guarantee that crowds would continue to come and watch the team after they'd seen the guy once or twice. Also who's to say they won't play typical lazy crap stuff and then sod off halfway through their contract.
Long term I guess the main goals have to be build the crowds and keep improving the league standard.
If the standard eventually rivals most top leagues bar the top 3 say, and the crowds, tv coverage etc grow then money will start to take care of other things. Top Korean players would stay in the country thus heightening domestic interest.
|
|
|
Post by SteveW on Jan 4, 2005 19:29:53 GMT -5
Yeah I think phase 1 would be trying to keep the top Korean players in Korea... but then I suppose that could be damaging to the interest levels if it meant that they didn't have the 'ooh look one of our boys is playing for PSV' effect and also if it meant the NT suffered as a result.
I would have thought that Korea had a good chance in snapping up some 35 year old stars from Europe but they have to compete with Middle Eastern countries now who are throwing a million quid a year at has beens.
They could work on bringing over the cream of Asia and Aussie/NZ players to feed onto Europe but I'm not sure how successful that would be.
Or they could just give random drunken whitey Hagwon teachers games for comedy value. I'm sure 35,000 people would flock to Sangam just to ask 'Where are you prom?'
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 5, 2005 2:40:42 GMT -5
What was interesting was that after the World Cup Hiddink said that for Korea to continue getting better the national team players and any future ones HAVE TO go overseas and get experience in good European leagues.
That happened with quite a few players going but aside from the two at PSV I'm not sure if the others have really got consistent week in and week out top class football at their clubs.
Also everytime they came back to play for Korea for all intents and purposes they were absolute pants. They might be different if they had more time with the team though but in this day and age outside the WC you will never get that chance.
I'm not totally convinced that it's the big deal that Hiddink and maybe others believe. The K-League isn't that shit and there's a lot to be said for staying home and getting consistent gametime all season for the same club year after year.
A better solution would be to get more foreign coaches bringing their ideas and systems to Korea to get a good mix and influence and then if the money is there to get good quality foreign players here who can share their skills and experience with the locals.
And I don't mean fly by nighters. Get guys here who are involved in more than just playing. Get them involved in assissting with the team.
As you suggested Steve I've often thought that Korea should look to Australia and to a much lesser extent NZ for some of it's imports. Elrich was an example of how that happened and failed but so long as everybody knows where they stand when they come to Korea and don't get bullshitted around with false ideas about what to expect here the same thing can be avoided.
Australia has a lot of very good players that could easily perform up to scratch in the K-League and they would probably be available for even less than the South Americans. The Football Kingz salary budget for their last season in the Aussie league would have made Bucheon ball their eyes out. I think their top player was getting something like 40 million won a season with the rest in a squad half the size of a K-League one all practically working 9-5 jobs and training 3 nights a week.
|
|
Colombian
Full Member
"I PARK" said the valet when I drove up to the hotel..
Posts: 211
|
Post by Colombian on Jan 5, 2005 5:10:51 GMT -5
NJS, Top league experience is something invaluable for any player, even if he's riding the bench. The level of the K-league is much much lower than any top league in major european countries. And I'm not just talking about the "football ability" of the players. It's about the professionalism of the entire operation. The football "atmosphere" in those leagues is what gives players that intangible mental growth, that turns good players into stars.
As you said, the big S. American national teams are entirely populated by players based in Europe. The Argentinian amd Brazilian leagues especially, are in football terms two of the top leagues in the world. but thats only from kickoff to 90 minutes. The rest of the time, they're incomparable. So their national teams are made up of either europe-based players, or youngsters who will be going there soon.
There has been great controversy these days because of Tevez moving to a brazilian team. The almost unanimous response from the media and pundits is that he has damaged his career irreparably by not going to Europe; yes, he will make millions more becuase the cruzeiro offer was astronomical, but he will never reach his true potential, since he's going to miss the greatest formative years. The equivalent of choosing to go to community technichal college when you could have gone to MIT.
|
|
Colombian
Full Member
"I PARK" said the valet when I drove up to the hotel..
Posts: 211
|
Post by Colombian on Jan 5, 2005 5:45:24 GMT -5
In the defense of the 'nameless brazilians', the situation must be considered in context. Making it into the brazilian (or Argentina) national team, at any level is next to impossible. The quality of the player pool dictates that many excellent players may never wear the yellow shirt. however, those same players could easily walk on and be stars in just about any other national team. in fact, I can probably think of at least 4 or 5 Brazilians who have recently been k-leaguers that could have been starters for the korean team... Reversing the situation, honestly we must admit that not a single Korean player currently has the conditions to be in either of those national teams. So, my thought is that even though Korea will never get the best S. American players, the ones that come are of a decent enough quality to consistenly dominate the league in their position (that probably includes easter europeans too) Australia and New Zealand? I'm sorry, but the only thing they have for them is that they are "more european culturally" than all the other south east asian players, and therefore are more likely to be eligible for EU passports, and since they speak english can easily adapt to lower british leagues... I know AU has a decent starting eleven, but the team's record is far from impressive, and the nation's player pool not what at first thought anyone would call "europe-bound". Australia has always played for a WC spot against the fifth south american ranked, and considering that the top spots 2 are a given (Brazil, Argentina) AU has had to play agianst the middle/low S. American nations... and never won. Just look at the FIFA world Rankings, and you'll see the company those two nations keep in... Sorry, NJS....
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 5, 2005 7:56:50 GMT -5
The rankings are horseshit I'm afraid.
They may work for the very top sides but for countries that are geographically islolated with no decent football neighbours they are near to meaningless. They just never get to play anywhere near as many as Korea and other sides in the top 25 or so do.
The full Australian team would probably beat the Korean national side if it was played in Aussie and lose if it was in Korea. I'd put Aussie in the top 25 teams in the world no worries.
2004 12 games 2003 3 games 2002 5 games 2001 10 games = 30 games
meanwhile Korea has had 70 games over the same period.
Aussie have beaten Brazil, France and England and lost by 1-0 away to Korea and Japan in that time. Not bad from the 49th best team in the world. Although they were about 70th when they did all that.
What I was really saying was that you can get good players from there for f-all money. And they are good or else there wouldn't be 4 or 5 starting for premier league teams in the 2nd or 3rd best comp in the world.
|
|
|
Post by nyujeelandsaram on Jan 5, 2005 8:04:52 GMT -5
To get this back on topic. I take back what I said about Korea needing it's top players back in the K-League. Song Jong-guk has signed for Suwon On other news, I read that the Korean coaches and past it old coaches organisation wants Mr. Hyundai I own Korean football out of his position because they say he only cares about the national team and not about Korean domestic football and has neglected it.
|
|