Colombian
Full Member
"I PARK" said the valet when I drove up to the hotel..
Posts: 211
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Post by Colombian on Dec 21, 2004 3:04:51 GMT -5
Ya know, I've generally seen you complain a lot and I agree with you all the time but you seem to blame everything on the Koreans - is the club doing anything to improve attendance ? A new marketting director, maybe? I know I complain a lot, but after 3 years of being involved in the daily grind of Korean soccer, it's frustrating to see the great potential for the sport go to waste. Its specially higlighted for me when I talk to soccer professionals who are newly arrived or just visiting. I am at a loss to explain how the same stadium can be filled for a national team friendly and empty for an entire season of league games. Marketing? well, yes, that could be a start, but it's harly convincing to say that poor advetising is the cause of no attendance. Team performance? yes, a big factor. but if it were TRULY, we would see a big gap between lower placed and higher placed teams in the league, which is generally not true. Its not that I blame the koreans. Its just that its hard to explain how the national team can attract such permeating interest, while the clubs are virtually unnoticed. -notice India, or Australia, where football is just not a big sport, and there is low interest at all levels, club and national. --------------------------- About Lee Dong-guk : I wonder what that boy could do if he had a real training regime? the Army team is crap at providing the players with a professionally supported environment. this age he's in would have been the perfect to 'pull together' his talents and grow out of his faults. Choi Sung gook is still weak. It's not about height, but about balance and strenght. Maradona was about the same height, but a lot more solid. Owen is just slightly taller I believe. he just needs some meat on his bones.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 21, 2004 3:41:22 GMT -5
Seems to be some different opinions of Lee Dong-guk. He didn't look all that bad the other night. But I haven't followed the Korean National team as long as some of you guys have. So let me throw this out there for you boys...If you don't play Lee Dong-guk up front, who do you play in his place? My vote is the speedy young Ulsan Tiger Choi Sung-kuk, (yes I know he's considered too short to play against the big teams. And yes I'm a homer and favor the Ulsan guys, but I've seen him play quite a bit and he always looks pretty darn good.) Or how about playing guys like Kim Dong-hyun, or Namgung Do? Choi Sung-guk is one of my favourite players but if he was playing up front for Korea they'd be an awful lot of 0's next to Korea's name after 90 minutes. He doesn't get many in domestic football so it's hard to see him scoring on a decent international defense. He's more of a creator for others than a striker. Lee Dong-guk is playing now for Gwangju v Bucheon, can't be arsed watching though. Bucheon up 2-0 late in the game. Last time I saw him play v Bucheon he was the most dangerous player on the pitch, but then again so he should be in the clash of the titans.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 21, 2004 3:53:47 GMT -5
Its not that I blame the koreans. Its just that its hard to explain how the national team can attract such permeating interest, while the clubs are virtually unnoticed. -notice India, or Australia, where football is just not a big sport, and there is low interest at all levels, club and national. Koreans have a pack mentality. They do everything in groups. They go out drinking in groups, they don't mix with strangers (much if at all....EVER unless by mistake), they shop in groups they form cliques in class etc etc. wangta, honja.... It's not true of everybody in Korea but compared to other cultures it's a bloody clear and obvious distinction to make very early on in the piece. The largest gang in the world isn't the bloods, crips or KKK it's Daehanminguk If you could guarantee big crowds at K-League games then that will on it's own draw more through the gates. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It happens everywhere in the world, nobody wants to go to an empty nightclub or a game where they are the only person but not to the same extent that happens in Korea. It sounds dumb but Daejeon and Suwon get bigger crowds than most because..... they get bigger crowds than most. If they suddenly started pulling 1000-2,000 for two months straight then I just coulnd't see it recovering as people become scared to go fearful that there will be nobody there, which wrecks the vibe they like when watching football. there can't be many leagues in the world that get 20-40,000 on opening day and then two weeks later get 1,900. As soon as people sense that there won't be a big crowd they abandon it. It has nothing to do with the football, in the first place or in the second place.
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MinnesotaUlsan
Junior Member
I don't have all the answers...Hell I don't even know the questions!
Posts: 72
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Post by MinnesotaUlsan on Dec 21, 2004 5:26:17 GMT -5
NJ, You hit the nail on the head. That is kind of what I was thinking when I posted the question. I see him in that same role, creating things for others. Kind of like Cha Do-ri did on Sunday night,(especially on the last goal.) I could see Choi Sung-guk, with his speed, doing a lot of that for Korea. It wouldn't hurt the team to have one or two guys who are worried less about scoring and more about setting up a nice assist or two. Do they keep track of assists in football the same way as they do in Icehockey. If they don't they should. It would be interesting to see what strikers, (in Korea and around the world,) score less, but creat more. Just a thought.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 21, 2004 6:16:40 GMT -5
To add to the crowd thing in Korea that I wrote above...
Take a look at Seongnam's faithful. There are about 50? at most games. If they suddenly found a way to get 200-300 to come down the home end EVERY single week religiously (muhahaha) I guarantee you would stand a good chance of doubling the crowd in other parts of the ground. Not hard when there's only 200 spread over 20,000 seats I guess.
When people go to watch Suwon play you are assured of some atmosphere due to the 1,500 minimum - 5,000 that Suwon pull down the home end. Replace that with the support that Seongnam, Bucheon or most other teams get and all of a sudden you can kiss goodbye to a shit load of the folk that sit in other parts of the Suwon ground.
So........ in conclusion your honour I would say that a key part of any plan to get more bums on seats would be to start with attracting more 'behind the goal supporters' because they are the ones that sing, shout, scream and abuse the ref and put all the banners up that at least give the league a modicum of atmosphere. In NZ that kind of fanatical support doesn't really exist but then again it doesn't need to because there are already 10,000 plus at the ground getting shit faced.
I don't know exactly how you do it easily but if you can give incentives for people to sit there, discounts on those wearing team shirts (or some kind of voucher or discount off some merchandise or food purchase), get a mate to buy a season ticket and get yours for half price kind of thing then maybe it would be a start.
Just some different ideas than the usual stadium size complaints which is the other big problem for many teams. 5,000 at Pohang rocks a lot more than 5,000 at Incheon so teams in the big stadiums need to try and get 10,000+ to generate any kind of atmosphere.
blah blah blah
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Post by Ed. on Dec 21, 2004 6:22:51 GMT -5
Do they keep track of assists in football the same way as they do in Icehockey. They do in Korea, although it's not something I'm crazy about. I'm not a big fan of stats in football, since there's so many variables you just can't record (although try telling that to the local tv stations, with all that pseudo-scientific shite they put on the screen during games). It can be interesting to see the occasional thing, but sometimes it's more interesting when it shows the opposite to what you might expect. I remember watching Arsenal losing the corner-kick count something like 11-1 and winning 2-0, with one of the goals coming from the corner. Funny you should mention Choi in conncection with the third goal. He set up a tap-in like that one for Cho Jae-jin in an Olympic qualifier against China. It was the same move, except cut out Cha's involvement. Choi just went the whole way up the left by himself and laid it on. I agree with Colombian about him not having the physical side just yet, and that's not something he'll get in the gym. Michael Owen's name came up there, and one major reason he's as strong as he is is from having to fend for himself against professionals in the Premier since age 16. A lot of strength is about learning how to use it. I remember seeing wee Denis Wise in a pre-season friendly going into a 50-50 with one of the hardest buggers in the League of Ireland. Of course the experienced professional straightened the part-timer. European experience will definitely toughen up the lads who are over there.
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MinnesotaUlsan
Junior Member
I don't have all the answers...Hell I don't even know the questions!
Posts: 72
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Post by MinnesotaUlsan on Dec 21, 2004 7:08:47 GMT -5
They do in Korea, although it's not something I'm crazy about. I'm not a big fan of stats in football, since there's so many variables you just can't record (although try telling that to the local tv stations, with all that pseudo-scientific shite they put on the screen during games). I'm not a big fan of most stats either. Things like corners won, and what % of the time they go up the left or right sides or up the middle, ect. And I know how tough it could and can be to sort out assists in football. Like I said before it would be interesting to see what strikers end up becoming set up guys when they are supposed to be scorers.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 21, 2004 9:12:49 GMT -5
Yeah football isn't necessarily suited to collection of stats. But they can be useful to highlight points at times I suppose. If you are playing with two up front and one scores more than the other but the one not scoring is creating all sorts of shit for the defense then it can be useful to know that kind of thing. I think I saw a stat today during their game v Valencia saying that Ronaldinho had only scored two goals for Barcelona this season. But if you watched him he was flicking the ball here and there and running round like a nutter creating all sorts of problems. Any slightly knowledgeable person will notice things like that but for others who don't know so much or can't ever see the games then stats can also paint a small picture. Like Suwon being the foulingest dirtiest team in the league this year I'll tell you what, while I'm on the topic of fouls. I bet you could find a correlation between teams that foul more winning more. Just in general that is. Maybe it shows the teams who are really committed or maybe it's just a tactic that teams benefit from. Certainly in rugby there is a lot of negative play from defending teams which has led to a massive number of players being sent off for ten minutes in the modern era for these professional fouls.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 21, 2004 9:40:58 GMT -5
One other thing on stats. I know a guy in Korea who is a mad Man U fan and he said that Man U did not score a single goal from a Beckham corner in his final year with them. You'll have to trust me that this guy would know. Not the sort of thing you would expect from mr. bend it like beckham. Just goes to prove that he's shit
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Toon
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by Toon on Dec 22, 2004 15:37:39 GMT -5
I remember seeing a stat somewhere, may have been here may have been on the Pusan site about Chonbuk having the best support per head of capita. May well be out of date though.
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Post by nyujeelandsaram on Dec 22, 2004 21:04:26 GMT -5
Yeah I think that was going by my stats and HJ or IF calculated all that. Or maybe I did???
They only have about 500,000 in Jeonju and get crap crowds but they sit somewhere in the middle in terms of attendance.
Sure beat FC Crap in the nations capital.
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